550 ONLY class?

[Maulin Marto]

How many of us would commit to a 550 stand-up class, ONLY 440/550's JS hull.
I know for a fact I have a F14, TZ is building a F15....I would commit to a JS hull too since I'm try to sell the F14, and I have about 5-6 440/500's laying around....Soooo, anyone in? :D

[spence-r]

I would throw a couple bills at a 550 class, sounds like fun. It wont be any fun with Tim in it, you know he will have some crazy punched out stroker and we will be spending more on this class than our primary ones!!!
Seriously though I think it would be pretty fun

[fox river pwc]

Include the fx1 hull, and I'd be interested.

[Maulin Marto]

Include the fx1 hull, and I'd be interested.

That would be so unfair....and you know it! :mad: I'm thinking NO!
I'm talkin' old school....440/550 JS hull.

[Maulin Marto]

I wanna race Chopper on a 550....I might have a chance then as he probably never really rode that hull? Right? Chopper? How much tray time in a JS 440 550 hull?:D

[spence-r]

I started on a 550, ill tear those buoys up!
Marto, are you interested in selling part of your plethora of 550's?

[Maulin Marto]

I would throw a couple bills at a 550 class, sounds like fun. It wont be any fun with Tim in it, you know he will have some crazy punched out stroker and we will be spending more on this class than our primary ones!!!
Seriously though I think it would be pretty fun

All right Spencer! :D
Don't worry about TZ....I'll handle that, gonna cut his tendons in his leg like in Caddy Shack....he'll always turn right no matter where he rides, he will give up the sport. :eek:

[fox river pwc]

That would be so unfair....and you know it! :mad: I'm thinking NO!
I'm talkin' old school....440/550 JS hull.

I haven't ever raced my fx1, so I really don't know it, but I have tried running practice buoys on it (alone) - so I know how much harder it is to even make laps on glass on my fx1 than it is on any of my SJs.

The fairness or unfairness simply depends on the rules. My fx1 is nearly identical in length and width to a 440/550. It's also very twitchy, hard to keep the pump in the water (relative to a SJ or any other ski built for closed course racing), and very prone to spinning out. Just like on a 440/550, it takes a helluva good rider to make one look fast on a race course. I've ridden many 440/550s - from stock to limited to superstocks (I even owned a 440 superstock long ago) - and my FX1, while more powerful, is almost as crude, IMHO.

I see there are tons of guys doing kawi 650 conversions on 440/550 hulls. This is actually rather cheap to do. There are also some 750/800 powered 440/550s today and even some 701s in them. If the rules basically allow any motor set up, with some kind of cc limit, then it could work with the fx1 in the mix. If you guys are talking stock/limited 440s and 550s, then forget the fx1 - maybe.

When I raced in michigan in 08, there was a 16 year old kid on a 472cc full mod 440 (total loss, ported, the works) racing in vintage. He took 3rd both days, and was the only guy that timmer and I (timmer and I swapped 1st and 2nd all 4 motos that weekend) weren't able to lap all weekend. Had I been on my fx1 that weekend, the kid on that 472cc kawi 440 would have beaten me, no doubt. Long story short, the fx1 is hardly a shoe-in against a decent rider on a 440/550. You know yourself from racing back in the day Marty, the old skis make racing WAY more about the skill of the rider than today's skis do.

Besides, my thoughts on racing today always lean towards filling lines more than trying to make everything perfectly even-steven, especially with versions of vintage racing that tend to be more about the fun anyhow. We just don't have enough racers showing up at regional events to make sure all the vintage classes have perfect parity among the brands/models. Do you want 3 skis on the line or 4 or maybe 5? I know other FX1 riders that know their skis are eligible for the current 750 vintage class, but don't want to line up against SJs and SXi Pros - but could be persuaded to line up with 440/550 hulled skis. After all, the FX1 was yami's answer to the kawi 550 hull, wouldn't it be kind of epic to match them against one another?

Lastly, here's a thought. If the FX1s are an unfair advantage against the 440/550s, then just make all the FX1s take the penalty buoy on every lap after the holeshot, or half the laps, or whatever it takes to make it fair.

Anyhow, that's my input. As long as I own old SJs (and I always will), my FX1 will never get lined up in the current vintage classes, but I do have room on my trailer for it...

[fox river pwc]

Almost forgot, I've never ridden a F14 or F15, but I've always assumed they were at least a decent handling advantage over a 440/550 hull. Are they? Also, their rated HP is also similar to a stock/limited FX1. If the F14/F15s are on the line, well then........


Which brings up one last idea - why not just line up the 440s/550s in the 650 Vintage class? That's part of what the 650 Vintage class was created for. Unless a bunch of guys want to race 650 SJs or Kawis AND also want to race a 440/550 hulled ski, there is already a place to race a truly old-school kawi, without creating another class.

[fox river pwc]

Last year, when vintage was split into 2 classes (previously it was basically an open class for anything made/designed prior to the SXR) the APBA actually created 750 Vintage and 550 Vintage. For whatever reason (and I'm not complaining, BTW) the GLWT decided to do a 650 Vintage class instead of 550 (along with the 750 Vintage). I assume the reasoning for this was because we already had a bunch of guys running 650 SJs in vintage that just didn't have the motors to run with the guys running 701 SJs and 750 Kawis - and we had nobody showing up with 440s/550s anyhow. Basically, vintage in WI was made up of 2 groups of racers - 1 group of 48-52mph skis and 1 group of 38-42 mph skis, without much of anything in between. So, the 650 and 750 Vintage class split made good sense - and the attendance numbers seem to confirm that as well.

As a guy who has lobbied promoters in the past for changes, I understand the spirit of wanting a 550 class. However, perhaps another way is to just get all the 550s signed up in the 650 Vintage class. If 440/550 particpation grows to where another class can be justified for the 550-hulled skis, then so be it. It will be easy to make it happen if the racer attendance is there...

[Chopper]

Um, If it was not for stupid 550's I would not be in this sport. I have owned a couple of them in my day. But, I have zero interest in racing them. I don't even know how much racing I'll do this year. I need to rebuild my bank accounts and pay off debt from last year still. Not to mention that it's almost March and the only race in Wisconsin is being promoted by UWP in Racine. That you can count on I will not be missing unless I have 2 broken legs... Yummy Volleyball Players!

As far as Tim racing them. He can build what he wants, but he needs to leave his garage in order to race... LOL! (I really hope he does decide to venture out of the shed cause I think it would help his sanity!

FX1! in give me a break. You put a 550 in an FX1 hull and it would be fair (maybe). Any halfass rider would ride laps around anyone on a kawi 550. I know this for a fact cause I've witnessed it. Who knows maybe there will be an FX1 in the vintage class. My money is on the guy who shows up with the FX1 with Flames on it...

Oh Spencer, you might need that 550 for something to ride when your 4-joke is in drydock!

[spence-r]

Thats weird Josh, I think there may be a scent of jealousy in the air?

Why dont you go buy yourself a two smoke killer like I have and solve all of your financial problelms! $6000 for a ski that will be super competative in 2-3 classes and run on 91 octane.
Man, I sound like momar, but its true!

btw, how did you do at the damnation race? I saw it but never saw you

[Chopper]

The Black Diamond Race, I took 2nd by eleven hundreths of a second (.11) (without a GS Suit). Got a 6 pack of beer for the results, all that for a $5 entry fee...

Jealous, not quite my friend. Have you even ridden your 4-joke yet?

$6000, I wish I had $6000 to spend on anything these days.

I've been saying this for a long time but it's true. I'll find value in this sport when there are more than 3 people to race against. I've bent over backwards for this sport and now I cannot justify it anymore. The fun is gone without competition of many people on the line. You know where to find me when it comes to racing buoys, which is at an undisclosed location in the middle of Wisconsin where the beach is nice, water is rough, and the food is good at the end of the day. Not to mention the price of admission is merely showing up with a ski and equipment and this willingness to have fun pounding out laps for the day. Some refer to this as NBF racing.

[Maulin Marto]

I thought you started out on 750's Chop? So I would have even less of a chance....just my luck. Am I reading Spence right here? He found a hydro for 6K? what year? The only Hydros I have seen in that range are in need of about 5-6k in updates and engine work. You better have deep pockets if you want to play the 4 stroke card....DEEP POCKETS! Chopper has a good point. The 4 strokes are a risky gamble...50/50 shot of it not giving you any major problems.

[STXRGirl]

I cant wait to race this year..but I think I'll take a pass on the 550 class. There is a reason I bought my Super Jet......couldn't ride my 550 to save my life.

[Chopper]

The first 2 skis I owned were 550's ('85 & '89). I never raced them though. I did start racing on a '95 SXI (I hated that thing!).

The 4-joke thing is no joke. Yeah Spencer happened to buy a used one for $6000 (which was forsale for 4 months). If they were all $6000 and people could get parts and work on them you would see many people racing them. This is why/how so many people switched to the SXR in '03, because there was a dealer network and people could afford them. The ecconomy in 2003 is far different than the ecconomy in 2010. People are broke, and the state of racing is still declining. We all hate that, but it's true. All I have ever wanted since I got into this sport was to see it grow, every year I think that we have turned the corner on that. But every year we get fooled again. Last year marked growth on the GLWT which is awesome, that's history now though. Who knows what the future will hold. All I know is that I personally need to be much more careful on the spending front, and with no actual races scheduled yet who knows what will happen. Racine might be the only thing we have this year, which would completely suck donkeyballz. NBF Racing might be the only gig in town.

[STXRGirl]

"Last year marked growth on the GLWT which is awesome, that's history now though."

What makes you so sure this year wouldn't show growth? We have several more friends that want to join us racing this year, and we have every intention of hitting most, if not all of the races. So lets all try and be a little more positive and hope for the best :) P.S. Im still looking for a race trailer.... and a beach cart.

[Maulin Marto]

Did he go get that one in Florida? Hulk Hogan's kids Hydro? Hope he knows what he is doing. I was told by a very reputable hydro builder out of havasu that the hydros are just a huge hole to throw money into....nothing more. Great when they run, a nightmare if they puke. I still want to ride one though....

[Chopper]

"Last year marked growth on the GLWT which is awesome, that's history now though."

What makes you so sure this year wouldn't show growth? We have several more friends that want to join us racing this year, and we have every intention of hitting most, if not all of the races. So lets all try and be a little more positive and hope for the best :) P.S. Im still looking for a race trailer.... and a beach cart.

I didn't mean that there would be no growth, as that is what we all want. I was stating figuratively that last season is over and the future is ahead. I hope there is a lot of growth for racing in all parts of the world. It's something that we all want. I guess my point is that we cannot live in the past like so many people do. We need to live in the present.

A better topic for this discussion would be to see what is actually going to happen with racing in 2010, at least for the Great Lakes Watercross Tour.

[Maulin Marto]

Quote> Spencer: Why dont you go buy yourself a two smoke killer like I have and solve all of your financial problems!

Is this an oxymoron? :confused:
Getting a used hydro could be just the beginning of financial problems, not the end of them. :eek:

[Maulin Marto]

I'm sure its a lot of work to put it all together, the race dates that is, not an easy task. Plus, don't forget Scott and Linda both have full time jobs too. I would not want the job of nailing down events and dates when dealing with permits, and stupid homeland security like Scott was telling me last year. Something about the state and the feds have to approve all that crap, takes time and what if they say no? I understand its frustrating not having a concrete schedule yet, I hear ya and I hope things get better for all so we can have some fun this year!

[spence-r]

I was joking about solving all of your probelms ETC!!! Yes marty I got a hydro, no it was not from Hulkamanias son.

90% of people that put down the hydro dont own one. They are voicing their opinion off of people that had them in the past. And when they came out 3-4 years ago people didnt know how to use them yet. most of the issues have been worked out and corrected.
I would say 8 out of 10 hydro owners suggest buying one. Ive talked to macc, rius, cabrera, zier, mateo juarez, etc, etc... Same answer.
Time will tell if it was the right move or not

[Maulin Marto]

I'm not putting it down at all...I want one! I just understand what it will take to operate and maintain one, and that is not possible with 4 kids and a "stxr girl" to provide for at the moment. I'm envious if anything. I hope it works out for you and your best chance for a flawless ride is having Tim as a wrench that is for sure. Just try not to run me over....I have to work on Mondays!

[Chopper]

Spencer, all of those people also have the cheese or support (Sponsors) to back up their investments. Believe me we have all seen many issues with them. You know as well as I do that the people that have owned or do own HSR's all have had issues and will continue to have them. It's the nature of the beast. Especially when you double or triple the number of moving parts in an engine. They will eventually break or wear out. How many times did I help lift a Hydro motor out of the hull of one ski at the World Finals this past year? That was in a persons HSR that owns two of them and has two spare weber motors. One of which he bring with him to all events.

I know that Marty and I both hope that you don't have issues, but at the same time when there are issues, there typically is some serious issues. Issues that very few people at our races can even attempt to help you with. My honest adivce is to get your fathers SXR set up for racing as a back up and hope that you never have to use it.

I just hope that some day someone puts a DI 2 stroke into a production ski hull. It's just way more simple and cost effective.

[spence-r]

Not trying to start an argument, but how many times was your engine out of your hull and how much time did you spend wrenching in havasu... Plus you cant put a price on perfect handling and hookup, no matter how much they put down the boost it will handle better.

[Chopper]

Not trying to start an argument, but how many times was your engine out of your hull and how much time did you spend wrenching in havasu... Plus you cant put a price on perfect handling and hookup, no matter how much they put down the boost it will handle better.

Yeah, and how much money did I spend on fixing it. And did I perform all of the work myself? There will always be wrenching in racing. Some wrenching is just easier than other wrenching.

How much time was spent wrenching on your lemon all last summer? Who made sure that you had something to race on at every event... This year your resources are very limited in that dept, unless you know of a HSR mechanic that lives in our area. And that in no way is ment to knock Tim one bit. He lives 4 hours from you and also has limited time.

Everyone wishes you the best, but at the same time understand the reality of 4-Jokes. That is they may have their bonus's but they also have there shortfalls.

For me it's race what I own and have paid for or not race at all...

[Maulin Marto]

The 800 Etec ski-doo mill makes 140HP....all day! Stock

[Maulin Marto]

I'm saving for the SXR 4 stroke, only a matter of time. Yami will be 1st, you will see. They have been working on it harder than everyone else. Water is the problem, one frickin teaspoon in that valve area and your done...thousands to fix. BOOM!:eek:

[joe563]

Let me race my 750 in that class i suck as a rider so it would be fair

[Maulin Marto]

LOL! Joe, I would love to get you back on a stand-up! See, this is what I'm talking about. Just some old fashion fun racing, **** falling off skis during the race....blowing up 20 year old engines! Yeah!

[STXRGirl]

ohhh...so we dont have to be good? o.k. then...Im in :)

[admin]

That is what vintage is all about. sucking it up and having fun doing it. everyone has seen the junk I run in vintage.

[joe563]

I already promised sombody i would run one stand up race this year..you guys will be surprised to see who..

[Maulin Marto]

I'll be there....and I got a frickin' quad, no more begging you for help!

[joe563]

you know i would be there for you.. good times i am leaving mine home..lol

[STXRGirl]

Hey Marto...still need to buy your wife a beach cart :)

[Maulin Marto]

Hey Marto...still need to buy your wife a beach cart :)

You mean a wheelchair hauler....:eek:

[jeepinxj]

o I am down for this 550 battle retire the b2 and rock a 550 w nitrous this is a open class I'm assuming

[Maulin Marto]

Open class....let the smack talk begin! Oh, its on baby!

[spence-r]

C'mon lets keep it cheap!!!
I know Zarny will have something crazy but we should make it limited or something

[fox river pwc]

550s are all about the rider, which is why I no longer have one ;).

Run whatchu brung 550 class.

Stockers go when the band snaps.
Limiteds start with a dead engine lanyard on top of helmet.
Opens start with a dead engine facing backwards lanyard on top of helmet.
Ridiculous crazy-mods start with a dead engine facing backwards lanyard buried somewhere on the beach behind the starting gate.

:)

Spend as much as you want, but keep on smilin' regardless...

[joe563]

that is a cool idea...

[Maulin Marto]

I'm down with that...I think I'm going to sport that F14...so I don't want to be cast as a sandbagger. If I have an unfair advantage, I will take that challenge. So, if TZ shows up with a sick F15 he gets to start backwards...right? That is, IF he shows up?

[Chopper]

Yo Marto, you typed "IF"...

[Maulin Marto]

I Know....big "IF":rolleyes:

[motochuck]

You have to get your lanyard outa Thors yap to start the race!!

[fox river pwc]

I'm down with that...I think I'm going to sport that F14...so I don't want to be cast as a sandbagger. If I have an unfair advantage, I will take that challenge. So, if TZ shows up with a sick F15 he gets to start backwards...right? That is, IF he shows up?


Marty, is a stock F14 a turd? How would it do against something like a stock 650 SJ or stock 750SX? I never rode one or even saw one being ridden to have any idea.

???

[fox river pwc]

How many of us would commit to a 550 stand-up class, ONLY 440/550's JS hull.
I know for a fact I have a F14, TZ is building a F15....I would commit to a JS hull too since I'm try to sell the F14, and I have about 5-6 440/500's laying around....Soooo, anyone in? :D

So Marty, if the F14 gets raced in the 550 class, where are you gonna race the JS hull ;););)???

[Burtka]

I'll be there....and I got a frickin' quad, no more begging you for help!

Congrats Marty! You needed a quad the MOST! Can I get a ride...

[Maulin Marto]

Congrats Marty! You needed a quad the MOST! Can I get a ride...

A 660 Grizzly....I'll pull all yer sheeeiit! Its gonna be a better year for all I hope. :D

[Maulin Marto]

So Marty, if the F14 gets raced in the 550 class, where are you gonna race the JS hull ;););)???

I have yet to ride the thing, but I rode one years ago...its like a strong 550 limited. Here is my final class choices. I'm going to race in. I would do sport spec but ****...I have to pay for Blondzilla too. Gotta cut the fat somewhere.
1. Masters
2. 440/550 maybe on the f14, or a 550 limited. I don't care If I win, i just want to have fun in this class.
3. Vintage 701

How about you Paul?

[spence-r]

What about novice stock or am open on your sxr?

[Maulin Marto]

What about novice stock or am open on your sxr?
I moved to expert in 1990....I think you were a fetus then. After 8 years off I may have not looked like an expert last year, but I'm hoping for a much better showing this season. Its hard getting old.....sucks. I love the yellow background too much to go back, and it makes me work harder to chase faster guys.

[fox river pwc]

I have yet to ride the thing, but I rode one years ago...its like a strong 550 limited. Here is my final class choices. I'm going to race in. I would do sport spec but ****...I have to pay for Blondzilla too. Gotta cut the fat somewhere.
1. Masters
2. 440/550 maybe on the f14, or a 550 limited. I don't care If I win, i just want to have fun in this class.
3. Vintage 701

How about you Paul?

What ski will you use for 750 Vintage?

I'll be in 750 Vintage again, and probably sport spec a few times. I'd like to maybe try the 550 Vintage, but I don't own any F14s or "official" JS hulls. The "unofficial" JS hull I own is white & purple, with a big FX1 decal on the side ;), and I don't think it'd be welcome in that class - even facing backwards - oh well. If masters gets big, I know an SXR I could maybe rent/borrow - or maybe I'll try to find someone with an SXR who wants to use my blaster for sport spec and will let me use their SXR for masters, since I know I won't wanna run any of my SJs in masters. Oh, and the offshore thing sounds like it could be cool, and I might have a little something up my sleeve for that, but you don't have worry 'bout that one bit, Marty :)...

[Maulin Marto]

[QUOTE=fox river pwc;4580]What ski will you use for 750 Vintage?

Gonna ride the wife's square nose 701

[Maulin Marto]

[quote=fox river pwc;4580] If masters gets big, I know an SXR I could maybe rent/borrow - or maybe I'll try to find someone with an SXR who wants to use my blaster for sport spec and will let me use their SXR for masters, since I know I won't wanna run any of my SJs in masters.

Masters needs more guys in it. You don't need an sxr to run it. I bet your SJ is just as fast if not faster than my sxr. Its pretty much stock spec.

[fox river pwc]

Masters needs more guys in it. You don't need an sxr to run it. I bet your SJ is just as fast if not faster than my sxr. Its pretty much stock spec.

I know, but my SJ just doesn't handle the chop like even a stock SXR does. Plus, I'd kinda like to give racing a shot on an SXR at least once in my life. We'll see. I go back and forth on that idea a lot.

[admin]

[quote=Maulin Marto;4582]

I know, but my SJ just doesn't handle the chop like even a stock SXR does. Plus, I'd kinda like to give racing a shot on an SXR at least once in my life. We'll see. I go back and forth on that idea a lot.

you on anything but a yami. I find that hard to believe

[fox river pwc]

It's just like I told you about why we don't have a dog at my house. I like them a lot, just not enough to own one :).

Besides, I've already sprained an ankle and torn a hamstring thanks to SXRs. I might as well hurt myself on one when it really counts ;). I like running buoys on them (and there are pics to prove it that people I know have threatened to post), but I just can't stand rec riding on them for even a second.

Hey, maybe spencer will sponsor me for masters and stick me on a HS. Wouldn't that be a HOOT!!!???

Spencer - you wanna race my blaster in sport spec, or is your game face epoxied on this year, mister allseriousapatomous???

[spence-r]

As of now nobody's renting it. Game face is on for sure. Except for maybe the 550 class.

Maybe ill soften up after the season starts but if you sub it in a corner it could cost you 4k. If you want to take that risk we can talk more about it

[Chopper]

Whoa, Stop the press! Paul wants to race on a Kawi? Wholie chit! I never thought I would see the day.

Spencer you keep that game face on, you'll need it.

[CHOOCHOO]

Whoa, Stop the press! Paul wants to race on a Kawi? Wholie chit! I never thought I would see the day.

Spencer you keep that game face on, you'll need it.

Yah game face. Like Josh does with his new avatar pic. LOL

[Chopper]

Yah game face. Like Josh does with his new avatar pic. LOL

Don't you be talking crap about my new ride, or my donkey...

[R Hudson]

You know where to find me when it comes to racing buoys, which is at an undisclosed location in the middle of Wisconsin where the beach is nice, water is rough, and the food is good at the end of the day. Not to mention the price of admission is merely showing up with a ski and equipment and this willingness to have fun pounding out laps for the day. Some refer to this as NBF racing.

If you ever need/want more riders to arrive at this particular undisclosed location, feel free to extend an invite :)