fox river pwc
12-03-2008, 10:35 AM
In case you hadn't noticed the vintage ski document posted on the APBA site about 2 weeks ago. Here it is:
http://www.apbaracing.com/2008/news/081120_news_apba.pdf
If it matters to you, it looks like pat mell is asking for input - again - on this. If this current document/proposal is left alone, it appears that Open Vintage will dissolved and basically broken up into 750/701 limited mixed with 650 open, and also a separate vintage class for stock 650s mixed with open 300-550 skis.
This shuts out the open 750/701 skis completely, and really doesn't offer much for the owners of 650 limited skis out there.
Yes, the emphasis on vintage should continue to be fun, but I've frequently said that the class needs to structured in a way to make it easy for the thousands of vintage skis that already exist to enter - in their current form.
Personally, I don't know of many open class 650 SJs or Kawis that exist any more. Anybody building a serious 650 SJ in the past decade would have ditched their 650 motor or cylinder for a 701 as a first step. As for the kawi 650s I see, they're all generally stock or limiteds, as the kawi guys tended to gravitate to the 750s or SX-Rs long ago as well. So, limiting the 750s and 701s to limited rules, just so the open 650s (that are few and far between) can compete, seems nonproductive to me.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think having 2 vintage classes is necessarily a bad idea, but it needs to be a little more logical - and applying today's versions of stock, limited, and open rules to skis that were probably built under far different definitions of those classifications has it's shortcomings.
Here's my suggestion:
Vintage 1:
755cc limit, open class rules, no total loss ignitions, no mag pumps. This will keep costs in check and allow basically any older ski to enter. As for the 1995 and older rule, well I could go either way on that, but I'd rather have more skis than less skis on the line. Pat's talked about a 2002 limit, since the SX-R came out in 2003, but then you have the fact that the SJ is the same from 1996-2007, so whatever...
Vintage 2:
680cc limit (to allow for rebuilds on 650s, but it could be a bit lower anyhow), limited class rules, single carb, no mag pumps, no hull mods like tubbies/extensions. This would keep costs REALLY low, if you even want to bother having a competitive ski, and would allow nearly every 650 and under ski that rec riders in this country currently have in their garages - to enter. As for worrying about making kawi 300s/400s/440s competitive, I don't know how feasible that even is with just 2 vintage classes.
Age limit:
Should juniors be allowed? I guess I'd want them to get a few junior races under their belts before lining up in vintage - and maybe they should be limited to vintage 2?
Skill level:
Should pros be allowed?
Laser Jet and PJS Thunderjet?
Sure. Allow them in Vintage 1 with the other fast skis.
Anyhow, regardless of what happens specifically, it looks like vintage has caught on enough to the point of becoming a "real" class, and probably 2 classes, whether we like it or not. If you have opinions on this, now is the time to say something to pat mell. Thanks for reading.
http://www.apbaracing.com/2008/news/081120_news_apba.pdf
If it matters to you, it looks like pat mell is asking for input - again - on this. If this current document/proposal is left alone, it appears that Open Vintage will dissolved and basically broken up into 750/701 limited mixed with 650 open, and also a separate vintage class for stock 650s mixed with open 300-550 skis.
This shuts out the open 750/701 skis completely, and really doesn't offer much for the owners of 650 limited skis out there.
Yes, the emphasis on vintage should continue to be fun, but I've frequently said that the class needs to structured in a way to make it easy for the thousands of vintage skis that already exist to enter - in their current form.
Personally, I don't know of many open class 650 SJs or Kawis that exist any more. Anybody building a serious 650 SJ in the past decade would have ditched their 650 motor or cylinder for a 701 as a first step. As for the kawi 650s I see, they're all generally stock or limiteds, as the kawi guys tended to gravitate to the 750s or SX-Rs long ago as well. So, limiting the 750s and 701s to limited rules, just so the open 650s (that are few and far between) can compete, seems nonproductive to me.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think having 2 vintage classes is necessarily a bad idea, but it needs to be a little more logical - and applying today's versions of stock, limited, and open rules to skis that were probably built under far different definitions of those classifications has it's shortcomings.
Here's my suggestion:
Vintage 1:
755cc limit, open class rules, no total loss ignitions, no mag pumps. This will keep costs in check and allow basically any older ski to enter. As for the 1995 and older rule, well I could go either way on that, but I'd rather have more skis than less skis on the line. Pat's talked about a 2002 limit, since the SX-R came out in 2003, but then you have the fact that the SJ is the same from 1996-2007, so whatever...
Vintage 2:
680cc limit (to allow for rebuilds on 650s, but it could be a bit lower anyhow), limited class rules, single carb, no mag pumps, no hull mods like tubbies/extensions. This would keep costs REALLY low, if you even want to bother having a competitive ski, and would allow nearly every 650 and under ski that rec riders in this country currently have in their garages - to enter. As for worrying about making kawi 300s/400s/440s competitive, I don't know how feasible that even is with just 2 vintage classes.
Age limit:
Should juniors be allowed? I guess I'd want them to get a few junior races under their belts before lining up in vintage - and maybe they should be limited to vintage 2?
Skill level:
Should pros be allowed?
Laser Jet and PJS Thunderjet?
Sure. Allow them in Vintage 1 with the other fast skis.
Anyhow, regardless of what happens specifically, it looks like vintage has caught on enough to the point of becoming a "real" class, and probably 2 classes, whether we like it or not. If you have opinions on this, now is the time to say something to pat mell. Thanks for reading.